Where are all the Indian Poker Players?

October 24, 2007, 9:49 am <!– — Updated: 9:50 am –>

By Stephen J. Dubner

Whenever I see a poker tournament on TV or wander through a casino, I am always struck by a particular absence: there seem to be very few Indian-Americans playing poker. Considering that there are so many Indians of poker age in this country who thrive in finance, computer science, engineering, and other fields that incorporate math, probability, risk, etc. — i.e., the kind of fields that produce a lot of amateur and pro poker players — why should this be so?

I guess there are two separate questions:

1. Am I right in my perception that Indians are underrepresented?

2. If so, why is that the case?

I open this question up to all of you. In the meantime, I asked a few people to respond by e-mail: Rafe Furst, our poker-playing friend, truth-seeker, and all-around smart guy; Sudhir Venkatesh, our sociologist friend who isn’t a big gambler (as far as I know), but is an Indian immigrant and perceptive observer; and Shubhodeep Pal, an 18-year-old from Dehradun, India, now studying at Singapore Management University (and who just happened to recently send in an interesting question by e-mail, having nothing to do with the topic of gambling).

Rafe Furst:

I don’t know of any data, but it is also my anecdotal experience that [Indians] are under-represented from what one would expect. My wild-ass guess is that culturally, gambling and game playing are not valued in Indian culture, and perhaps even hold a stigma. (This would not be hard to assess by talking to a few Indian-Americans.) Contrast this with many Asian cultures, in which gambling has a long history, and the twin virtues of luck and cleverness are lauded.

Notably, poker does not seem to be that popular with Japanese people, and I wonder if the cultural emphasis on personal honor/respect and social consensus are antithetical to poker. For instance, being seen as a highly competitive person who may not be in total control of his emotions or gambling activities seems to run counter to those cultural ideals.

Sudhir Venkatesh:

Okay … So I asked my relatives, and I can’t get definitive answers, other than that gambling is somewhat taboo among Hindus. This may be the upper-class, fairly conservative opinion, but the summary view would be that:

1. Indians never had much money, and, other than astrological betting (e.g., making the right bet on a marital prospect), gambling never took hold because of this.

2. Gambling generally refers to a strategy to gain material goods, and Hindu teachings generally say this is a failed strategy toward happiness — not necessarily a moral taboo, but rather a disincentive based on the folly that the material dimension provides such rewards in the psych realm.

3. For some members of the upper-class, gambling is seen as dirty because it is involvement in the world rooted in selfish behavior.

Shubhodeep Pal:

My answer might be incomplete, but the fact remains that in India, people tend to stress cultural values a lot. As far as I know, a majority of Indians are brought up on the following broad and vague dictum: smoking, drinking alcohol, and gambling are BAD.

For good or ill, these cultural deterrents are sufficient to keep most Indians away from casinos and the like. The guilt associated with association with “bad” places is an added deterrent. In a country where family life and family values are of supreme importance, people tend to think with their hearts. However, as we move up to the higher strata of society, the same are considered acceptable.

Moreover, I believe people erroneously tend to link cultural values with religion. Religion is a strong enough deterrent or motivator in India.

Another point: I do not necessarily believe that Indians are good at math, probability, etc., for the precise reason that I don’t think the educational system makes us think as much as it should. Most of the questions asked in examinations are common questions, and since high performance is placed at such a premium, most school qualifying examinations tend to be easy and can be “cracked.”

There seems to be a lot of explanatory power in these answers. Assuming they are at least partially true, it raises at least two further questions:

1. How much are the cultural pressures that discourage gambling responsible for the relative success of Indians in the U.S. education and labor markets?

2. As more people of Indian origin grow up in the U.S., will the cultural prohibitions of the old country fade — and will the tables of Vegas soon be populated by Indian players?

Why People love to play Poker ???

Many players of online poker games love to play poker not only because it is fun to play but also due to the challenges that the games offer and the intellectual tests involved in it. The game offers no limits of fun and achievements but it requires skill. Moreover, online poker games are games of mental stimulation. The games are full of competition and players of online poker games can earn thousands of dollars from the comfort of their homes. The games offer wonderful gambling opportunities for its players. It’s a kind of game where you can find entertainment and make money simultaneously.

Here are some reasons why players of online poker games enjoy being in the virtual casinos.

• Making money

Entertainment is not the only reason that is making online poker games popular among the gamers. Stirred by money, the games drive many people to play the game from the very beginning. A patient and skilled player can cash in on the poker challenges and win a pure profit. A player with sufficient skill and practice can make lot of money but has to master the skills and rules of the game.

• Intellectual challenge

Poker is not a mere gambling option, rather it involves lot of mental challenges to play the game safely and win at the end of the game. Many people enjoy gambling but the intellectual moves that online poker games require add to the thrill of the game. The degree of intellectual challenges varies from player to player. Some players believe that bluffing is the core of the game and the real challenge of the games lay in clever bluffing. On the other hand, for others the intellectual challenges are the base of reading the hand of the opponents.

• Social aspects

Oline poker games have a social attribute. Players sitting in different corner of the world can contact each other online and make friendship. Online poker games allow you a golden opportunity to meet new people and chat with them while playing your favorite game online and earning bucks.

• No limit of achievement

When it comes to achievement in online poker games, there is no ceiling. You can find bigger tables with more money in the virtual casinos. Besides, you can set them according to your conveniences and preferences.

• The thrill of the competition

online poker games have wide rage of varieties and every game is thrilling as it is surrounded by money. But, the thrilling environment of poker games is not only due to the fact that it is a game of chance, but also because it involves the knowledge and skill of the players. The tensed competition among the player and the surprising turning points bring thrill of the game.

Online poker games are the best from of entertainment and they offer a varied range of options for the players. So the foremost reason why people play these games is for entertainment. Most people love to enjoy and wager on the likes of poker games. But the safest way to bit your competitors is to master the rules and play skillfully.

Posted by Jack Connor in News Post from: http://www.ahmedabad.com/blogs/

Saturday night with Amateurs !!!

Poker with amateurs can be the most daunting experience for a pro (well a semi pro who is considered pro in those amateur eyes..lol !!!). This is exactly what happened to me last Saturday night at 901 Suncity, Bangalore, when I tried my skills with few of my IIT classmates and seniors.

Now where you hold a status of pro, Not only just money but prestige and reputation are also on the stake and believe me you don’t want to lose to these guys. As one loss can bring a lifetime of humiliation and they will not spare a single opportunity to brag about how they busted you that night. And I also didn’t want to qualify for the example of a statement which says “a passionate amateur can beat a pro.” So playing with extra caution was just inevitable.

After explaining the rules, the first hand came in existence with several jokes (non-veg of course) and pranks, I had a Js, 10c. In a normal game I would make a mild raise to show the strength but here my senses did not allow for the same play style so I had to fold when Summi raised a 10/20 game to 100, few players called and flop came Jc, 10s, 7d and I cursed Summi like anything. I think I folded in most of the hands and choose to stay only with the better ones….really better ones!!!

Though I folded most of my hands and tried to establish an image of a tight player but the jokes from all the corners of the room couldn’t make it easier for me to calm down. The game was really interesting as it was a treat to watch them fight for a small pot with unusual raises and re-raises.

In one game I decided to limp in with pocket Aces and thought of cashing from those arrogant novice bastards, Sandy raised it to 30, Summi and Shayak called, HimS folded and Super again raised it to 100, well I had the best possible hand and everybody else is raising… [:-0] Am I not playing it right?? I just called to cash big from them. The flop came 7c, Kh, 3s… WOW!! Now someone with King will wanna give a shot and I was predetermined to bust the bluffer. I casually checked, Sandy checked too but Summi bet 300 (gotcha!!!) now everyone else excluding super folded, Super again re-raised it to 600…. Damn !!! How many Kings we have got in a Deck?? huh… Now I could go all in and bust both of these bastards but somehow I felt something wrong about it…something!!! I don’t know what but it was urging me to fold. To my surprise I folded my pocket Aces possibly the best hand…as soon as I folded Summi went all in, Super had no choice but to call the raise. Turn and River came Qh, 8s….Summi showed his 7 and before he could turn up the other card I swore him for getting my Aces folded but God grace he wasn’t just playing with a pair of 7 he had a 3 as well…and Super’s Kings were no good to his two pairs….That was a relief and I couldn’t admire myself more…

After a sequence of interesting hands where I was a spectator due to my folding spree, there came a hand which became the concluding hand of the evening. This time my holes were Ac, 8d… I raised it to 30, everyone just called… flop came Ah, 6h, 8h…. WOW two pairs on the flop but ‘Hearts’ were sending “Red signals”….well I wanted to give it a shot…and thought of raising it big I moved a 100 bucks chip in…Summi, Shayak and Sandy folded…great going!!! 3 down two more to go… HimS raised it to 200…Man did he strike two hearts in the hole??…No clue.. even his depressed face couldn’t help me…now Super re-raised it to 400….and I had no idea what’s going on…. These bastards don’t even know respecting a nice raise, these morons have hardly played some 20 hands in their entire life so far and they were giving me a run for money…Damn!!! Cursing all those stupid probability calculations which were of no help in a scenario like that where you liked your hand too much… With shivering hands I put all my chips in the pot going “All-in” making it another 1100 bucks for each of them to call…. Praying to God that this should make them fold their bluffs (or it is just me thinking that they were bluffing).

And on a very unpleasant note both of them came ‘All-in’ too….I cursed the moment when I took the courage of going all-in but none of that aftermath gonna stop the damage……

I showed my two pairs…HimS had two pairs (nice) but As, 6s were no good….YES!!!…now Super came with his daunting Hearts and my heart just skipped a beat…Man I hated those heavy hands of Super sliding the chip stack towards him….but hey wait..The Turn and River are not up yet…we don’t have a winner yet…

Oh yeah….in such a headlong situation I forgot the existence of the next two cards…I asked Summi to put next two cards on the board…it came 8d and Kc….wow I just hit a full house on the turn……I couldn’t bless Summi more…He after his stupid play style made my day with a ravishing ‘8’….

And King departed with full dignity and smile on his face to have a good night sleep !!!

Virtually Poker !!!

The general popularity of poker worldwide, and of online poker in particular, has been described by the venerable Doyle Brunson as being like “a tornado sweeping down the Texas Panhandle.” Millions have taken the plunge and the numbers continue growing exponentially. and I think this was one of the most strong driving point for RCS Technologies to start Cardskhelo.com, the first indian online card gaming portal offering NL Texas Hold’em, Teen Patti (Indian Poker) and Rummy.

I must admit I have been slow to warm to online poker and mainly because of the reasons such as the absurdly bad beats and suck outs, rumors of collusion between players, the use of “bots” (computer programs playing for the House), and so on. As most of these sites are set up offshore, and are completely unregulated. There’s an old saying in Vegas, “Don’t gamble with invisible dice.” When you tackle Cyber-Hold ‘Em you’re playing with virtual cards in a virtual game against unseen players, who, as far as you can tell, and despite the assurances of the poker site, might be virtual as well.

But anyways ignoring all the side-effects, I signed up with a popular poker site but had difficulty depositing money into my account. Apparently one will face difficulty depositing money into these accounts with an Indian credit card. Instead I was directed to wire the amount to a place in the Caribbean using Western Union, something I never got around to doing. So I couldn’t play in any cash games, and believe me the real poker action is only on the cash tables. So I half-heartedly signed out. One day i found cardskhelo.com and believe me the reactions were way too pleasant as in cardskhelo.com you don’t even have to deposit cash to be in real action tables. The business model is such that you get a monthly membership with a nominal fee, though the site provides gaming even without the monthly subscription but again who will not pay when you get a paid subscription in just Rs.200…..

With my paid membership and chip balance of 200 real points I started playing in small sit-and-go tournaments and did quite well. Within a month I had grown that 200 pts into a grand total of 75000. I started playing in more expensive tournaments, placing in a few, but mainly losing. My roll got whittled down to 30000, and I figured it was time to stop playing small-ball and make a move. I registered for a 27-player 20000 sit-and-go and within the first 10 hands I knocked out several players and was the chip-leader. I was in good form, catching cards and making the best of them with perfect raises and re-raises, stone-cold bluffs, and clever traps. I knocked out a few more players, and my virtual chip pile grew accordingly.

After an hour of exciting play I made the final table with a big chip lead over the other eight players. My cards went cold so I tightened up and let the others hack each other up. One player, Mr. Sam, with the avatar of a silhouette man in a bowler, was raising and re-raising like a madman and started accumulating a big stack of chips. Then I noticed something odd. On one hand, after two raises and re-raises, Mr. Sam moved all in pre-flop. One player called holding a nice pair of black pocket queens. Mr.Sam had nothing but a suited jack-four of hearts. Sure enough three hearts fell on the flop and Mr. Sam took down a huge pot.

Three hands later, we were down to eight players and on the bubble. Since only the top seven finishers won any money, the eighth man would be out with nothing. Though Mr. Sam was now the chip leader, I felt pretty good sitting in second place. I figured I’d play squeaky tight and wait for a real monster before I threw any more chips into the pot. Sure enough I got served up a pretty pair of kings on the button and when I sensed weakness at the table what with five limpers, I made a big raise hoping to take the pot down pre-flop. Everyone folded but Mr. Sam, who not only called but re-raised me with a huge overbet. Now, I had to think for a minute before I called that re-raise, wondering if he had caught a pair of aces and had slow-played them. But as I’ve written before, when I get kings I tend to play them as hard as I can. come hell or high water. If he had the aces, so be it, I thought. On the other hand, I had a real chance to take this bastard down. I hated the way he was playing, all the raising and re-raising with bad cards and all the suck outs he was getting. Time for his little rush to end. I moved all in. Mr.Sam called. I turned over my kings. He turned over queen-seven of spades. My heart skipped a beat.

When I hit another king on the flop I grew even more excited, but two spades fell with the king and I noted the flush possibility with some alarm. The turn helped neither one of us and for a second I fondly contemplated doubling up and becoming the overwhelming chip leader, then possibly winning this tournament and moving on to more expensive ones with significantly larger prizes . . . And when the third spade fell on the river, I had a sick feeling in my stomach – No! – and when all the chips slid in front of Mr.Sam’s flashing avatar and a message announced that I had finished eighth in the tournament, the ugly reality sank in, disgusting me so deeply I spent the rest of the day in bed.

But anyways look at the positive side if i could have made it, i would have some 200,000 pts. in my account good enough to get a Dell Laptop from cardskhelo.com shop….well i said better luck next time….and one thing after playing for so long I’ve become a die hard fan of cardskhelo.com!!!

Keep up the good work guys  🙂

Author is a semi pro poker player and has won several poker tournaments in Goa.